The Drake Vs. Kendrick Diss Battle – 2024
Wassup! ceetay here, the Doc Brown to your Marty McFly. Okay, I’ll just cut to
Menu
Hey, y’all! ceetay here! Okay, let’s cut to my lame excuse. I had to move the Rap Waveback Machine. No one told me I couldn’t store a time machine in my own backyard. I mean, I pay my property taxes like everybody else. I should be able to store whatever I want. But apparently, the machine violates a neighborhood noise ordinance rule or something. If that’s the case, why is that woman four houses down the street still getting away with blasting her music like she’s hosting a concert every damn weekend? Whatever keeps me out of jail…
That’s why you haven’t seen anything for four months. If you still want to ride the Rap Waveback Machine, I need to schedule us an Uber ‘cause… Look, if you can trust me steering a time machine, we can share an Uber to a warehouse. It’s like taking the bus to the subway. I’ll pay for the fare, okay? Okay.
See, we’re at the machine already! It only took an extra 15 minutes. Let me set the dial back to the year when Apple’s ad against a George Orwellian future launched the Mac and the birth of the Superbowl Ad. When Michael Jackson’s Jeri curls caught fire while filming a Pepsi ad and the East Coast Beat Street and the West Coast Breakin’ released their versions of Hip Hop in movie theaters.
After you’ve finished waxing on and waxing off the Waveback Machine, I’ll turn the… You was told no such thing? Alight, skip it, Hop in, grab a can of Pepsi, put on your seatbelt as we travel back to 1984.
Ready? Hit the play button!
Ever wonder how we got here? How did Kendrick Lamar vs. Drake blew up to mainstream proportions? We need to go back to the humble beginnings of the R&B “Answer” record. It was a vehicle for women artists to answer back to a previous hit record usually (not always) performed by a male singer. Six years after James Brown proclaimed It’s A Man’s World, he brought on Lyn Collins to the JB’s roster to answer that notion with Think (About It). It also represented the growing desire for women’s empowerment in the 1970s.
This concept took a more raunchy tone when Millie Jackson came on the scene. Her wicked humor was deemed too spicy for daytime, even nighttime, radio airplay. That didn’t stop Millie from selling certified Gold albums to satisfied Adults across the country.
Infidelity has been a hot topic in hit records for many decades across many music genres. However, the concept of an “Answer” record hit its peak in 1981. While Jonnie Taylor advised it was Cheaper To Keep Her in 1973, divorce steadily increased in the 80s.
Richard “Dimples” Fields played the “suffering” husband singing his heart out about his mistress while complaining that his wife threatened to drain his bank account if he left her in She’s Got Papers (on Me). The song had all the juicy, salacious details more commonly seen on a daily soap opera. After She Got Papers became smash it, it spawned its own episodic story. How could it not after listening to the classic clapback Betty Wright, who played the wife, offered at the talking or “Rap” end portion of the song.
That last verse was meant to be the last word until Barbara Mason stepped into the recording booth. She was the new character who barged in and caused conflict and confusion. Barbara spilled much tea on She’s Got The Papers (I Got The Man). She point blank told Betty she can keep the marriage because Barbara had the better part of the deal, Betty’s husband.
In the next episode, I mean, song it was Betty Wright updated us on how her martial status had changed in Goodbye You, Hello Him. Betty traded her marriage for a new guy. What seemed to have been the season finale was upstaged by a shocking twist fit for soap opera consumption with Barbara Mason’s Another Man. The gloating mistress ended up also dumping the man because… can you guess? Yup, he cheated! Question is, with whom? The title Another Man was clever. It not only revealed Barbara moved on to another man, she did so after Richard cheated on her with another man. This was one of the earliest mentions of men being on the down low with Gay relationships in a mainstream R&B single, while its bass heavy dance beat made it a banger!
This way of storytelling was so successful it inspired artist in a new genre in 1983.
In an earlier post about Fantasy Three’s It’s Your Rock, I mentioned their diss track Biters In the City was about The Crash Crew stealing their beat on Rockin’ On The Radio. The diss track I’m focusing on now was based on what I was just talked about in the previous section, relationship drama.
Looking back, I was baffled how the “Roxanne Wars” rapidly caught on like the older woman in that Wendy’s commercial asking Where’s The Beef? Rap music mostly didn’t focus on matters of the heart in the way R&B traditionally had. In this period in Rap, the audience was more open to different subject matter, just as long as the records didn’t sound wack.
UTFO introduced Roxanne, Roxanne to the rap-loving public in 1983. The Educated Rapper, Kangol Kid and Dr. Ice commiserated about how a woman rejected all of them. It was a bit vulnerable for guys to admit they failed to pick-up a girl. Yet, at the same time, Roxanne, Roxanne was humorous enough for the listener to sympathize with their shortcomings instead of dissing them… that would eventually be Roxanne’s job.
The initial idea came from DJ Marley Marl; he was Mr. Magic’s on air DJ who cut, scratched and re-mixed records. He asked a young lady if she wanted to record a response record. Marley had done this before with a rapper named Dimples D. She recorded Sucker DJ’s (I Will Survive) in 1983. The song mimicked Run DMC’s megahit Sucker MC’s, yet it wasn’t a diss track. Her insults were aimed at the deejays who couldn’t compete with Marley Marl. (Small Note: Dimples D would later revive Sucker DJs with a British producer, Ben Liebrand, who made the Genie Mix in 1990.)
With Marley’s next venture he handed the mic to Lolita Shanté Gooden aka Roxanne Shanté. Her job? To respond to UTFO and reveal her side of the story as “Roxanne”. It was one of the first Rap records where a woman directly confronted the man (men).
Roxanne’s Revenge debuted in 1984 on… where else? Mr. Magic’s Rap Attack. As The Educated Rapper, Kangol Kid and Dr. Ice stated their case one-by-one, Roxanne Shanté clapped back at them one-by-one. Her disses were ferocious as if she was standing opposite all of them during an emcee battle.
After Roxanne’s Revenge blew up, many, many, many, many other diss records clogged the airwaves like grime in a water pipe. To name a few: Roxanne’s Sister, Roxanne’s Doctor, Roxanne’s Man, Roxanne’s A Man, The Parents of Roxanne, etc, etc, etc. Then another female rapper cut the back of the line, went straight up to Shanté’s face and dissed her as hard as Shanté dissed UTFO. Thing is, Sparky D had no affiliation with UTFO just like all the rest who jumped into the Rap Battle Royal. Sparky D’s clear delivery and forceful tone in her breakout single Roxanne You’re Through captured much attention and gained heavy rotation on KISS-FM’s DJ Red Alert and Chuck Chillout shows. She and Shanté would later release the highly anticipated “battle” record Round 1.
It seemed as though UTFO was left in the dust after many opportunists jumped on their chance for stardom. UTFO’s producers, R&B group Full Force, weren’t gonna lose their chance to capitalize on what, most likely, caught them off guard. They searched and found the Real Roxanne. Elease recorded Boys, and The Real Deal. The powers that be handling UTFO’s dwindling piece of this cash grab moved on and ultimately chose Adelaida Martinez and came out with the “official” rebuttal The Real Roxanne. UTFO also “officially” ended the “Roxanne Wars” with Calling Her A Crab (Roxanne Part 2) on their second album. It had as much impact as Drake’s The Heart Part 6.
What was most interesting about all this, Shanté’s only direct opponent was Sparky D. No one else, The “Real” Roxanne, UTFO, etc. never came for Shanté. Could it be Roxanne Shanté was better with her vocal delivery, flow, and her creative bars that were hard to counter (until KRS-One’s one-liner in The Bridge Is Over, a feud Shanté wasn’t actively involved in)? You be the judge.
One of the forgotten aspects of early Hip Hop culture is the relationship between Hip Hoppers from New York and Philadelphia. The first discovered graffiti tag, “Cornbread” happened in Philly in 1965*. Yet the first instance of Graffiti to take shape and grow happened two years later in New York City with “Julio 204”; then in 1969, “Taki 183” (with the help of a New York Times article) helped kickstart an ongoing, worldwide phenomenon.
I noticed this connection in an unexpected way: during my high school English class. My classmates and I had to sit in the library, watching this new PBS Docu-series called The Story of English. It explored the history of the English language and how it affected America. Sounds wack, right? Just keep reading. The episode Black on White featured Black Americans’ influenced from Africa to America.
During the last portion of the episode, the filmmakers traveled to Philly and introduced Hip Hop slang (starts at 50:15) to the uninitiated. They were the same words and phrases that blasted out of my boombox on a daily basis.
I’m pointing this out to setup why Marley Marl would be comfortable enough to reach out to a Philly owned label, Pop Art, to record Roxanne’s Revenge. Later on, Shanté made her guest appearance in another Pop Art single Fly Shanté with an upcoming Philly rapper MC Boo (aka Steady B). This partnership lasted until Marley and Mr. Magic cut a deal with Warner Bros. Records under the sub label Cold Chillin‘ Records.
Another fact that hasn’t been emphasized enough is Roxanne Shanté was Marley Marl and Mr. Magic’s first successful artist (Dimples D only collaborated with Sucker DJ’s). Yet, the artist most people associate with Cold Chillin’ or The Juice Crew most was MC Shan. He was put on after Shanté and teamed up with Marley starting with Marley Scratch and Beat Biter. The record that would later immortalize his presence, which spawned its own Rap beef with KRS-One and BDP, was the monster hit The Bridge.
In 1986, Shanté lent her talents to help introduce a new beatboxer on her single Def Fresh Crew. The single dropped during the new craze most associated with Doug E. Fresh and The Human Beatbox (from The Fat Boys). Bizmarkie laid down infectious beats with his mouth as he and Shanté bust out another hit for the Juice Crew.
After her diss record debut, Shanté continued her aggressive style among all her hits are: Bite This, Have A Nice Day, Go On Girl and the aforementioned Def Fresh Crew. Her records were a perfect blend of her razor sharp bars and Marley Marl’s cuts and scratches, as she constantly challenged other artists by name.
Her growing appetite sought new heights when she battled for emcee world supremacy at the annual New Music Seminar in 1985. Be sure to catch further details as Shanté recounted went down. TLDR, she won without winning. Huh? A certain judge (later identified as Kurtis Blow) gave her a poor score at the final round. His reasoning? To preserve the legitimacy of Hip Hop. Yeeaaah, can’t let the world know the best emcee was a teenaged girl. Can you believe this?! Unfortunately, I can. While some people could overlook her gender, others (mainly those outside the culture at the time) couldn’t. It was a damn shame.
Roxanne Shanté could’ve been a one hit wonder, a rapper who seized the opportunity to make some noise, and some cash before disappearing as a footnote. Instead, Shanté is known, rightfully so, as a trailblazing emcee that just so happens to be a woman. No qualifier needed. She also succeeded at a time where women didn’t need to rap primarily about sex and/or requiring to wear provocative outfits like an Anime waifu. Shanté was just hanging with the rest of the crew. Not only did she keep up with them, she also set herself apart as her own artist. She had, and still has, that unmistakable voice that takes me back to her setting the record straight as she carried out her revenge.
That’s it! Hope you enjoyed today’s post. If you want a deeper dive, here’s a YouTube playlist highlighting the Roxanne Wars and the Netflix movie Roxanne, Roxanne.
I hope all this info will be enough for you and for me to return on a monthly basis. If not, feel free to check out a video talking about the New Music Seminar and its importance during the 80s and 90s.
I’ma try like hell to come back soon to guide you back in time! Til then, I’m ceetay, your time travel guide to the old school. Seeeee Yaaaaa!
*Source: “Alphabeatz: Graffiti Alphabets from A to Z” by Woshe – English translation in 2019.
In between much needed time travel arrangements, and maintenance, ceetay’s off-time consists of sitcom TV watching, Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream eating and gathering thoughts and information about old school music that have been either forgotten or buried under mountains of predatory corporate copyright claims. If you ever find yourself standing close enough, you might catch ceetay muttering, “If creativity is not allowed to be inspired by its history, culture will inevitably lose its meaning.”
Hey, y’all! ceetay here! Okay, let’s cut to my lame excuse. I had to move the Rap Waveback Machine. No one told me I couldn’t store a time machine in my own backyard. I mean, I pay my property taxes like everybody else. I should be able to store whatever I want. But apparently, the machine violates a neighborhood noise ordinance rule or something. If that’s the case, why is that woman four houses down the street still getting away with blasting her music like she’s hosting a concert every damn weekend? Whatever keeps me out of jail…
That’s why you haven’t seen anything for four months. If you still want to ride the Rap Waveback Machine, I need to schedule us an Uber ‘cause… Look, if you can trust me steering a time machine, we can share an Uber to a warehouse. It’s like taking the bus to the subway. I’ll pay for the fare, okay? Okay.
See, we’re at the machine already! It only took an extra 15 minutes. Let me set the dial back to the year when Apple’s ad against a George Orwellian future launched the Mac and the birth of the Superbowl Ad. When Michael Jackson’s Jeri curls caught fire while filming a Pepsi ad and the East Coast Beat Street and the West Coast Breakin’ released their versions of Hip Hop in movie theaters.
After you’ve finished waxing on and waxing off the Waveback Machine, I’ll turn the… You was told no such thing? Alight, skip it, Hop in, grab a can of Pepsi, put on your seatbelt as we travel back to 1984.
Ready? Hit the play button!
Ever wonder how we got here? How did Kendrick Lamar vs. Drake blew up to mainstream proportions? We need to go back to the humble beginnings of the R&B “Answer” record. It was a vehicle for women artists to answer back to a previous hit record usually (not always) performed by a male singer. Six years after James Brown proclaimed It’s A Man’s World, he brought on Lyn Collins to the JB’s roster to answer that notion with Think (About It). It also represented the growing desire for women’s empowerment in the 1970s.
This concept took a more raunchy tone when Millie Jackson came on the scene. Her wicked humor was deemed too spicy for daytime, even nighttime, radio airplay. That didn’t stop Millie from selling certified Gold albums to satisfied Adults across the country.
Infidelity has been a hot topic in hit records for many decades across many music genres. However, the concept of an “Answer” record hit its peak in 1981. While Jonnie Taylor advised it was Cheaper To Keep Her in 1973, divorce steadily increased in the 80s.
Richard “Dimples” Fields played the “suffering” husband singing his heart out about his mistress while complaining that his wife threatened to drain his bank account if he left her in She’s Got Papers (on Me). The song had all the juicy, salacious details more commonly seen on a daily soap opera. After She Got Papers became smash it, it spawned its own episodic story. How could it not after listening to the classic clapback Betty Wright, who played the wife, offered at the talking or “Rap” end portion of the song.
That last verse was meant to be the last word until Barbara Mason stepped into the recording booth. She was the new character who barged in and caused conflict and confusion. Barbara spilled much tea on She’s Got The Papers (I Got The Man). She point blank told Betty she can keep the marriage because Barbara had the better part of the deal, Betty’s husband.
In the next episode, I mean, song it was Betty Wright updated us on how her martial status had changed in Goodbye You, Hello Him. Betty traded her marriage for a new guy. What seemed to have been the season finale was upstaged by a shocking twist fit for soap opera consumption with Barbara Mason’s Another Man. The gloating mistress ended up also dumping the man because… can you guess? Yup, he cheated! Question is, with whom? The title Another Man was clever. It not only revealed Barbara moved on to another man, she did so after Richard cheated on her with another man. This was one of the earliest mentions of men being on the down low with Gay relationships in a mainstream R&B single, while its bass heavy dance beat made it a banger!
This way of storytelling was so successful it inspired artist in a new genre in 1983.
In an earlier post about Fantasy Three’s It’s Your Rock, I mentioned their diss track Biters In the City was about The Crash Crew stealing their beat on Rockin’ On The Radio. The diss track I’m focusing on now was based on what I was just talked about in the previous section, relationship drama.
Looking back, I was baffled how the “Roxanne Wars” rapidly caught on like the older woman in that Wendy’s commercial asking Where’s The Beef? Rap music mostly didn’t focus on matters of the heart in the way R&B traditionally had. In this period in Rap, the audience was more open to different subject matter, just as long as the records didn’t sound wack.
UTFO introduced Roxanne, Roxanne to the rap-loving public in 1983. The Educated Rapper, Kangol Kid and Dr. Ice commiserated about how a woman rejected all of them. It was a bit vulnerable for guys to admit they failed to pick-up a girl. Yet, at the same time, Roxanne, Roxanne was humorous enough for the listener to sympathize with their shortcomings instead of dissing them… that would eventually be Roxanne’s job.
The initial idea came from DJ Marley Marl; he was Mr. Magic’s on air DJ who cut, scratched and re-mixed records. He asked a young lady if she wanted to record a response record. Marley had done this before with a rapper named Dimples D. She recorded Sucker DJ’s (I Will Survive) in 1983. The song mimicked Run DMC’s megahit Sucker MC’s, yet it wasn’t a diss track. Her insults were aimed at the deejays who couldn’t compete with Marley Marl. (Small Note: Dimples D would later revive Sucker DJs with a British producer, Ben Liebrand, who made the Genie Mix in 1990.)
With Marley’s next venture he handed the mic to Lolita Shanté Gooden aka Roxanne Shanté. Her job? To respond to UTFO and reveal her side of the story as “Roxanne”. It was one of the first Rap records where a woman directly confronted the man (men).
Roxanne’s Revenge debuted in 1984 on… where else? Mr. Magic’s Rap Attack. As The Educated Rapper, Kangol Kid and Dr. Ice stated their case one-by-one, Roxanne Shanté clapped back at them one-by-one. Her disses were ferocious as if she was standing opposite all of them during an emcee battle.
After Roxanne’s Revenge blew up, many, many, many, many other diss records clogged the airwaves like grime in a water pipe. To name a few: Roxanne’s Sister, Roxanne’s Doctor, Roxanne’s Man, Roxanne’s A Man, The Parents of Roxanne, etc, etc, etc. Then another female rapper cut the back of the line, went straight up to Shanté’s face and dissed her as hard as Shanté dissed UTFO. Thing is, Sparky D had no affiliation with UTFO just like all the rest who jumped into the Rap Battle Royal. Sparky D’s clear delivery and forceful tone in her breakout single Roxanne You’re Through captured much attention and gained heavy rotation on KISS-FM’s DJ Red Alert and Chuck Chillout shows. She and Shanté would later release the highly anticipated “battle” record Round 1.
It seemed as though UTFO was left in the dust after many opportunists jumped on their chance for stardom. UTFO’s producers, R&B group Full Force, weren’t gonna lose their chance to capitalize on what, most likely, caught them off guard. They searched and found the Real Roxanne. Elease recorded Boys, and The Real Deal. The powers that be handling UTFO’s dwindling piece of this cash grab moved on and ultimately chose Adelaida Martinez and came out with the “official” rebuttal The Real Roxanne. UTFO also “officially” ended the “Roxanne Wars” with Calling Her A Crab (Roxanne Part 2) on their second album. It had as much impact as Drake’s The Heart Part 6.
What was most interesting about all this, Shanté’s only direct opponent was Sparky D. No one else, The “Real” Roxanne, UTFO, etc. never came for Shanté. Could it be Roxanne Shanté was better with her vocal delivery, flow, and her creative bars that were hard to counter (until KRS-One’s one-liner in The Bridge Is Over, a feud Shanté wasn’t actively involved in)? You be the judge.
One of the forgotten aspects of early Hip Hop culture is the relationship between Hip Hoppers from New York and Philadelphia. The first discovered graffiti tag, “Cornbread” happened in Philly in 1965*. Yet the first instance of Graffiti to take shape and grow happened two years later in New York City with “Julio 204”; then in 1969, “Taki 183” (with the help of a New York Times article) helped kickstart an ongoing, worldwide phenomenon.
I noticed this connection in an unexpected way: during my high school English class. My classmates and I had to sit in the library, watching this new PBS Docu-series called The Story of English. It explored the history of the English language and how it affected America. Sounds wack, right? Just keep reading. The episode Black on White featured Black Americans’ influenced from Africa to America.
During the last portion of the episode, the filmmakers traveled to Philly and introduced Hip Hop slang (starts at 50:15) to the uninitiated. They were the same words and phrases that blasted out of my boombox on a daily basis.
I’m pointing this out to setup why Marley Marl would be comfortable enough to reach out to a Philly owned label, Pop Art, to record Roxanne’s Revenge. Later on, Shanté made her guest appearance in another Pop Art single Fly Shanté with an upcoming Philly rapper MC Boo (aka Steady B). This partnership lasted until Marley and Mr. Magic cut a deal with Warner Bros. Records under the sub label Cold Chillin‘ Records.
Another fact that hasn’t been emphasized enough is Roxanne Shanté was Marley Marl and Mr. Magic’s first successful artist (Dimples D only collaborated with Sucker DJ’s). Yet, the artist most people associate with Cold Chillin’ or The Juice Crew most was MC Shan. He was put on after Shanté and teamed up with Marley starting with Marley Scratch and Beat Biter. The record that would later immortalize his presence, which spawned its own Rap beef with KRS-One and BDP, was the monster hit The Bridge.
In 1986, Shanté lent her talents to help introduce a new beatboxer on her single Def Fresh Crew. The single dropped during the new craze most associated with Doug E. Fresh and The Human Beatbox (from The Fat Boys). Bizmarkie laid down infectious beats with his mouth as he and Shanté bust out another hit for the Juice Crew.
After her diss record debut, Shanté continued her aggressive style among all her hits are: Bite This, Have A Nice Day, Go On Girl and the aforementioned Def Fresh Crew. Her records were a perfect blend of her razor sharp bars and Marley Marl’s cuts and scratches, as she constantly challenged other artists by name.
Her growing appetite sought new heights when she battled for emcee world supremacy at the annual New Music Seminar in 1985. Be sure to catch further details as Shanté recounted went down. TLDR, she won without winning. Huh? A certain judge (later identified as Kurtis Blow) gave her a poor score at the final round. His reasoning? To preserve the legitimacy of Hip Hop. Yeeaaah, can’t let the world know the best emcee was a teenaged girl. Can you believe this?! Unfortunately, I can. While some people could overlook her gender, others (mainly those outside the culture at the time) couldn’t. It was a damn shame.
Roxanne Shanté could’ve been a one hit wonder, a rapper who seized the opportunity to make some noise, and some cash before disappearing as a footnote. Instead, Shanté is known, rightfully so, as a trailblazing emcee that just so happens to be a woman. No qualifier needed. She also succeeded at a time where women didn’t need to rap primarily about sex and/or requiring to wear provocative outfits like an Anime waifu. Shanté was just hanging with the rest of the crew. Not only did she keep up with them, she also set herself apart as her own artist. She had, and still has, that unmistakable voice that takes me back to her setting the record straight as she carried out her revenge.
That’s it! Hope you enjoyed today’s post. If you want a deeper dive, here’s a YouTube playlist highlighting the Roxanne Wars and the Netflix movie Roxanne, Roxanne.
I hope all this info will be enough for you and for me to return on a monthly basis. If not, feel free to check out a video talking about the New Music Seminar and its importance during the 80s and 90s.
I’ma try like hell to come back soon to guide you back in time! Til then, I’m ceetay, your time travel guide to the old school. Seeeee Yaaaaa!
*Source: “Alphabeatz: Graffiti Alphabets from A to Z” by Woshe – English translation in 2019.
In between much needed time travel arrangements, and maintenance, ceetay’s off-time consists of sitcom TV watching, Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream eating and gathering thoughts and information about old school music that have been either forgotten or buried under mountains of predatory corporate copyright claims. If you ever find yourself standing close enough, you might catch ceetay muttering, “If creativity is not allowed to be inspired by its history, culture will inevitably lose its meaning.
Wassup! ceetay here, the Doc Brown to your Marty McFly. Okay, I’ll just cut to
Hey, Wassup! Happy New… Year? I guess? Didn’t mean to ghost you after… how many